diff --git a/packages/ludic.nav/README.md b/packages/ludic.nav/README.md
index a873c946..0eabe81e 100644
--- a/packages/ludic.nav/README.md
+++ b/packages/ludic.nav/README.md
@@ -78,6 +78,7 @@ the PC (Git Bash, the LLVM installer's clang). `native/LICENSE-recastnavigation`
 its filters. `nav_crowd_add(kind, x, y, z, radius, height, speed, filter, separation)` adds a walker (snapped to
 the mesh, -1 off it), `nav_crowd_target` and `nav_crowd_speed` say where and how fast, and
 `nav_crowd_step(dt)` steps every crowd. `nav_crowd_read` puts a walker into `nav_agent_x/y/z/vx/vz`,
-and `nav_crowd_us()` is what the stepping has cost. The mechanic decides and the crowd moves, and
+and `nav_crowd_us()` is what the stepping has cost. `nav_crowd_add_fixed` adds a walker the crowd avoids
+but never steers (a player), which `nav_crowd_place` puts where it is, and how fast it goes, each frame. The mechanic decides and the crowd moves, and
 dropping a mesh drops its crowd first. On the test meadow, twenty walkers crossing head-on never come
 closer than their two radii, and a step costs about 12 us.
diff --git a/packages/ludic.nav/crowd.ludic b/packages/ludic.nav/crowd.ludic
index 519ead41..b3801389 100644
--- a/packages/ludic.nav/crowd.ludic
+++ b/packages/ludic.nav/crowd.ludic
@@ -27,6 +27,17 @@ export function nav_crowd_add(nav_st: NavState, kind: int, x: float, y: float, z
   if c == null { return -1 }
   return nvc_crowd_add(c, x, y, z, radius, height, speed, filter, separation)
 }
+# a walker the crowd avoids but never moves (a player): put where it is each frame with nav_crowd_place
+export function nav_crowd_add_fixed(nav_st: NavState, kind: int, x: float, y: float, z: float, radius: float, height: float) -> int {
+  let c = nv_crowd(nav_st, kind)
+  if c == null { return -1 }
+  return nvc_crowd_add_fixed(c, x, y, z, radius, height)
+}
+# walker i put at (x, y, z) going (vx, vz); false off the mesh
+export function nav_crowd_place(nav_st: NavState, kind: int, i: int, x: float, y: float, z: float, vx: float, vz: float) -> bool {
+  let c = nv_crowd(nav_st, kind)
+  return c != null and i >= 0 and nvc_crowd_place(c, i, x, y, z, vx, vz) == 1
+}
 export function nav_crowd_remove(nav_st: NavState, kind: int, i: int) -> void {
   let c = nv_crowd(nav_st, kind)
   if c != null and i >= 0 { nvc_crowd_remove(c, i) }
diff --git a/packages/ludic.nav/lib/macos-arm64/libludicnav.dylib b/packages/ludic.nav/lib/macos-arm64/libludicnav.dylib
index 474332e5..9bfb38c7 100755
--- a/packages/ludic.nav/lib/macos-arm64/libludicnav.dylib
+++ b/packages/ludic.nav/lib/macos-arm64/libludicnav.dylib
@@ -1,3 +1,3 @@
 version https://git-lfs.github.com/spec/v1
-oid sha256:82c2b394bc9a6640055be28ce5172057b665759828e499d057df0cffe94aa05a
-size 198320
+oid sha256:422b71e66182f0c12a32fb4660c536b46d0665bfdd2fa3e6f751d16c14761b55
+size 198464
diff --git a/packages/ludic.nav/lib/windows-x64/ludicnav.dll b/packages/ludic.nav/lib/windows-x64/ludicnav.dll
index 253cf5f0..678bc410 100644
--- a/packages/ludic.nav/lib/windows-x64/ludicnav.dll
+++ b/packages/ludic.nav/lib/windows-x64/ludicnav.dll
@@ -1,3 +1,3 @@
 version https://git-lfs.github.com/spec/v1
-oid sha256:1a0eea4d94669a548e4874c07bc23caa321bf891f7a724331163e64f10006099
-size 374784
+oid sha256:14a3b0a5f6e6a6af79f8a6c205baeee57fc47d42148dec4190a8b3fdff633223
+size 375296
diff --git a/packages/ludic.nav/lib/windows-x64/ludicnav.lib b/packages/ludic.nav/lib/windows-x64/ludicnav.lib
index 32d4c3af..e6dca282 100644
--- a/packages/ludic.nav/lib/windows-x64/ludicnav.lib
+++ b/packages/ludic.nav/lib/windows-x64/ludicnav.lib
@@ -1,3 +1,3 @@
 version https://git-lfs.github.com/spec/v1
-oid sha256:754f4ea0ce90f7b512d9e6e12f59c5babaf1d071dfd8a30faff93bba8af52cee
-size 5804
+oid sha256:382674cb7e3141c20b852cd25b43c6348de433fad36141b97335c0c44de9b5c7
+size 6228
diff --git a/packages/ludic.nav/native.ludic b/packages/ludic.nav/native.ludic
index 0f1db0f2..b7f59072 100644
--- a/packages/ludic.nav/native.ludic
+++ b/packages/ludic.nav/native.ludic
@@ -18,6 +18,8 @@ extern function nvc_stage(size: int) -> pointer = "nav_stage"
 extern function nvc_crowd_new(h: pointer, max: int, max_radius: float) -> pointer = "nav_crowd_new"
 extern function nvc_crowd_free(c: pointer) -> void = "nav_crowd_free"
 extern function nvc_crowd_add(c: pointer, x: float, y: float, z: float, radius: float, height: float, speed: float, filter: int, separation: float) -> int = "nav_crowd_add"
+extern function nvc_crowd_add_fixed(c: pointer, x: float, y: float, z: float, radius: float, height: float) -> int = "nav_crowd_add_fixed"
+extern function nvc_crowd_place(c: pointer, i: int, x: float, y: float, z: float, vx: float, vz: float) -> int = "nav_crowd_place"
 extern function nvc_crowd_remove(c: pointer, i: int) -> void = "nav_crowd_remove"
 extern function nvc_crowd_target(c: pointer, i: int, x: float, y: float, z: float) -> int = "nav_crowd_target"
 extern function nvc_crowd_speed(c: pointer, i: int, speed: float) -> void = "nav_crowd_speed"
diff --git a/packages/ludic.nav/native/shim/nav_crowd.inl b/packages/ludic.nav/native/shim/nav_crowd.inl
index 178df676..62a44c6d 100644
--- a/packages/ludic.nav/native/shim/nav_crowd.inl
+++ b/packages/ludic.nav/native/shim/nav_crowd.inl
@@ -46,6 +46,43 @@ NAV_SHIM int nav_crowd_add(void *p, float x, float y, float z, float radius, flo
   if (!ref) return -1;
   return c->crowd->addAgent(near, &ap);
 }
+// a walker the crowd avoids but does not steer (a player): placed by nav_crowd_place each frame
+NAV_SHIM int nav_crowd_add_fixed(void *p, float x, float y, float z, float radius, float height) {
+  Crowd *c = static_cast<Crowd *>(p);
+  dtCrowdAgentParams ap;
+  memset(&ap, 0, sizeof(ap));
+  ap.radius = radius;
+  ap.height = height;
+  ap.maxSpeed = 20.0f;
+  ap.maxAcceleration = 1000.0f;
+  ap.collisionQueryRange = radius * 12.0f;
+  ap.pathOptimizationRange = radius * 30.0f;
+  ap.separationWeight = 0.0f;
+  ap.updateFlags = 0;
+  float pos[3] = {x, y, z}, near[3];
+  dtPolyRef ref = 0;
+  c->nav->query->findNearestPoly(pos, c->nav->ext, c->crowd->getFilter(0), &ref, near);
+  if (!ref) return -1;
+  return c->crowd->addAgent(near, &ap);
+}
+// walker i put at (x, y, z) going (vx, vz), snapped to the mesh; 0 when it is off it (left where it was)
+NAV_SHIM int nav_crowd_place(void *p, int i, float x, float y, float z, float vx, float vz) {
+  Crowd *c = static_cast<Crowd *>(p);
+  dtCrowdAgent *a = c->crowd->getEditableAgent(i);
+  if (!a || !a->active) return 0;
+  float pos[3] = {x, y, z}, near[3];
+  dtPolyRef ref = 0;
+  c->nav->query->findNearestPoly(pos, c->nav->ext, c->crowd->getFilter(0), &ref, near);
+  if (!ref) return 0;
+  a->corridor.reset(ref, near);
+  dtVcopy(a->npos, near);
+  float v[3] = {vx, 0.0f, vz};
+  dtVcopy(a->vel, v);
+  dtVcopy(a->dvel, v);
+  dtVcopy(a->nvel, v);
+  a->desiredSpeed = dtVlen(v);
+  return 1;
+}
 NAV_SHIM void nav_crowd_remove(void *p, int i) { static_cast<Crowd *>(p)->crowd->removeAgent(i); }
 
 // send walker i toward (x, y, z), snapped to the mesh; 0 when the point is off it
diff --git a/packages/ludic.nav/tests/crowd_test.ludic b/packages/ludic.nav/tests/crowd_test.ludic
index 183e87cd..8f3ca4f3 100644
--- a/packages/ludic.nav/tests/crowd_test.ludic
+++ b/packages/ludic.nav/tests/crowd_test.ludic
@@ -81,4 +81,39 @@ program CrowdTest {
     expect(not nav_crowd_read(nav_st, NAV_PERSON, a))
     expect_eq(nav_crowd_add(nav_st, NAV_PERSON, 5.0, 0.0, 5.0, 0.35, 1.8, 1.4, 0, 2.0), -1)
   }
+
+  test "a player standing in the way is walked round and never moved" (nav_st: mut NavState) {
+    expect(nav_build(nav_st, NAV_PERSON, ground(40, 0), new NavConfig))
+    expect(nav_crowd_start(nav_st, NAV_PERSON, 16, 0.6))
+    let me = nav_crowd_add_fixed(nav_st, NAV_PERSON, 20.0, 0.0, 20.0, 0.4, 1.8)
+    expect(me >= 0)
+    let ids = new []int
+    for i in 0 .. 6 {
+      let id = nav_crowd_add(nav_st, NAV_PERSON, 4.0, 0.0, 19.0 + float(i % 3), 0.35, 1.8, 1.4, 0, 2.0)
+      expect(nav_crowd_target(nav_st, NAV_PERSON, id, 36.0, 0.0, 19.0 + float(i % 3)))
+      push(ids, id)
+    }
+    var worst = 1000.0
+    for k in 0 .. 1800 {
+      expect(nav_crowd_place(nav_st, NAV_PERSON, me, 20.0, 0.0, 20.0, 0.0, 0.0))
+      nav_crowd_step(nav_st, 1.0 / 60.0)
+      for i in 0 .. len(ids) {
+        nav_crowd_read(nav_st, NAV_PERSON, ids[i])
+        let dx = nav_agent_x(nav_st) - 20.0
+        let dz = nav_agent_z(nav_st) - 20.0
+        worst = Math.min(worst, Math.sqrt(dx * dx + dz * dz))
+      }
+    }
+    nav_crowd_place(nav_st, NAV_PERSON, me, 20.0, 0.0, 20.0, 0.0, 0.0)
+    nav_crowd_read(nav_st, NAV_PERSON, me)
+    expect_near(nav_agent_x(nav_st), 20.0, 0.01)
+    var past = 0
+    for i in 0 .. len(ids) {
+      nav_crowd_read(nav_st, NAV_PERSON, ids[i])
+      if nav_agent_x(nav_st) > 34.0 { past += 1 }
+    }
+    print(`crowd: a walker came within {worst} m of the player (radii 0.75); {past} of 6 got past`)
+    expect(worst > 0.65)
+    expect_eq(past, 6)
+  }
 }