diff --git a/packages/ludic.ui/controls_build.ludic b/packages/ludic.ui/controls_build.ludic
index fd21f0a4..f87c4d0d 100644
--- a/packages/ludic.ui/controls_build.ludic
+++ b/packages/ludic.ui/controls_build.ludic
@@ -105,6 +105,10 @@ function ct_numeric(v: Val) -> bool { return Value.kind(v) == 1 or Value.kind(v)
 function ct_option_num(nv: Val, opts: []UiNode) -> int {
   let x = Value.as_float(nv)
   for i in 0 .. len(opts) {
+    if not ui_attr_has(opts[i], "value") {
+      if x == float(i) { return i }
+      continue
+    }
     let ov = ui_attr(opts[i], "value")
     if Value.kind(ov) == 0 and x == float(i) { return i }
     if ct_numeric(ov) and Value.as_float(ov) == x { return i }
diff --git a/packages/ludic.ui/native.ludic b/packages/ludic.ui/native.ludic
index cf36efb0..a659b445 100644
--- a/packages/ludic.ui/native.ludic
+++ b/packages/ludic.ui/native.ludic
@@ -97,11 +97,11 @@ function nt_run(ui_st: mut UiState, n: UiNode, name: string, value: Val) -> void
 }
 # an attribute of an element, as the template gave it (null when it has none) - for a native
 export function ui_attr(n: UiNode, key: string) -> Val {
-  if n.akeys == null { return Value.null() }
+  if n.akeys == null { return n.none }
   for i in 0 .. len(n.akeys) {
     if n.akeys[i] == key { return n.vals[i] }
   }
-  return Value.null()
+  return n.none
 }
 # whether an element has the attribute at all: ui_attr's miss is a new null, so a question asked
 # every frame asks this first
diff --git a/packages/ludic.ui/node.ludic b/packages/ludic.ui/node.ludic
index 48cc2dac..6bbae5c0 100644
--- a/packages/ludic.ui/node.ludic
+++ b/packages/ludic.ui/node.ludic
@@ -56,6 +56,7 @@ export property UiNode {
   nowrap: bool = false          # white-space: nowrap
   ellipsis: bool = false        # text-overflow: ellipsis
   lines: []string = null        # a wrapped text's lines
+  none: Val = Value.null()      # what ui_attr answers for an attribute it lacks: made with the node, read only
   var_names: []string = null    # its custom properties (--name), which its descendants inherit
   var_vals: []string = null
   fg: int = -1                  # a colour is 0xRRGGBB with its alpha beside it; -1 inherits