diff --git a/packages/ludic.ui/native.ludic b/packages/ludic.ui/native.ludic
index d1fdde34..f4a69575 100644
--- a/packages/ludic.ui/native.ludic
+++ b/packages/ludic.ui/native.ludic
@@ -85,6 +85,15 @@ export function ui_attr(n: UiNode, key: string) -> Val {
   }
   return Value.null()
 }
+# whether an element has the attribute at all: ui_attr's miss is a new null, so a question asked
+# every frame asks this first
+export function ui_attr_has(n: UiNode, key: string) -> bool {
+  if n.akeys == null { return false }
+  for i in 0 .. len(n.akeys) {
+    if n.akeys[i] == key { return true }
+  }
+  return false
+}
 export function ui_attr_text(n: UiNode, key: string) -> string {
   if n.akeys == null { return "" }
   for i in 0 .. len(n.akeys) {
diff --git a/packages/ludic.ui/scroll_held.ludic b/packages/ludic.ui/scroll_held.ludic
index a0599e59..dbd56955 100644
--- a/packages/ludic.ui/scroll_held.ludic
+++ b/packages/ludic.ui/scroll_held.ludic
@@ -25,7 +25,9 @@ function sc_held(ui_st: mut UiState, n: UiNode, off: float, live: bool) -> float
       List.pop(pxs)
     }
   }
-  let v = ui_attr(n, "scroll-top")
-  if Value.kind(v) != 0 { at = ui_px(ui_st, el_numv(ui_st, v)) }
+  if ui_attr_has(n, "scroll-top") {
+    let v = ui_attr(n, "scroll-top")
+    if Value.kind(v) != 0 { at = ui_px(ui_st, el_numv(ui_st, v)) }
+  }
   return at
 }